Comments on: Childhood Indoctrination

By: Matt V

Matt V — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:57:38 +0000

“1) Teach children the Bible thoroughly while teaching them critical thinking [an understanding of Wittgenstein is good].
2) Teach children the other religions.
3) Explain clearly and with evidence why you did not choose those religions, why they cannot possibly be true.”

Firstly I am amazed that after teaching your child the bible thoroughly you yourself did not lose your faith and realise how disgusting and immoral the book was. Did you point out while reading about Noahs Ark that (apart from Noah et al) the whole world including innocent children and babies were slowly drowned? An all powerful god could have used any number of tactics…but he chose drowning…wow, god IS great. the list of atrocities is immense!

Secondly I would LOVE to hear your evidence against other religions…ask the proponents of those religions about their evidence against yours aswell do you???

probably not.

By: Joe Martino

Joe Martino — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:36:35 +0000

What’s funny to me is I have BLJ on my shelf and I just haven’t gotten to it yet. I’ve read SFGKW, and To Own a Dragon. I really liked Dragon. And I liked searching.

By: Michael Krahn

Michael Krahn — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:25:58 +0000

I’ll have to review that section.

Overall, honestly, I thought Miller was WAY out of his element in “Searching…”. Let me preface that by saying I think he is a fantastic writer and speaker – I count myself a big fan. I think Blue Like Jazz should be required reading for just about everyone.

Will write more about that later.

By: Joe Martino

Joe Martino — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:01:04 +0000

LOL, what was the other time I broke my word? What did you think of searching? Specifically the part near the end where he talked about the gospel and science? I’ll have to look up the page for you. Unless you can figure out where I’m at from my brilliant description there.

By: admin

admin — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:30:43 +0000

Wow Joe, broke your word twice. You promised to hear from me before you commented… anyway…

You are right of course that my attempt at humor was an utter failure since I had Luther and Paul mixed up. And it does completely negate anything I said before or after.

I have read “Searching For God Knows What” – finished about a month ago. The next series I am going to post is about “Blue Like Jazz”, which I thought was fantastic.

Cheers

By: Joe Martino

Joe Martino — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 02:22:52 +0000

So far, not so good. There was no lightening that knocked the Apostle Paul off of his horse, that was Luther. Paul got out of his chariot and fell face down.
There’s no reason to believe that Paul would have been riding a horse. As an important official he would have been in a confined space so that he could do paperwork etc. The word (in both English and Greek–IF i remember my greek correctly) has nothing to do with lightening.
So…maybe you should spend less time pimping your “critique’s” of Rob and Dawkins and edit your own stuff a little more.
BTW, have you ever read “Searching For God Knows What”, if you have I’d like to discuss a passage with you.

By: Jim Jordan

Jim Jordan — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:27:43 +0000

**I am convinced that it is possible to raise children within a religious tradition and at the same time communicate the importance of critical thinking**

Exactly! What Dawkins is doing is creating a different dogma; religious belief is devoid of critical thinking. This is nonsense. I teach my daughter the Bible in an analytical way, bringing up challenges that other people have made to its veracity and logic, and then answering each one of these objections in detail.

What parent hasn’t shared their experiences and what they have learned from them to their children?
Here is my checklist:
1) Teach children the Bible thoroughly while teaching them critical thinking [an understanding of Wittgenstein is good].
2) Teach children the other religions.
3) Explain clearly and with evidence why you did not choose those religions, why they cannot possibly be true.

The result of this would be a young adult equipped to make an educated decision about their faith. There are fundamentalists that just tell their kids “you gotta believe” (i.e. don’t think!) but the atheist should not worry about them because they are the ones who leave the church anyway. Not long after they leave the nest they realize the truth that they don’t “gotta believe” [a point that Dawkins makes himself]. Actually, the “child abuse” is that the fundamentalists’ children have been deprived of a working knowledge of the Bible and thus are at greater risk of becoming an atheist as an adult!

Oddly enough, Dawkins brushes Christians like me aside as not being authentic because it challenges his dogma. In fact, it is the over-the-top fundamentalist that is the exception.

Last, MT said, ” But you do not leave it to them to judge the worthiness of that truth”. Sure we leave them to judge. Do you think Christian kids live at home until they are 67? Again, the key is a good education. The fact that each person WILL decide their path for themselves is a given.

By:

Ryan — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:46:23 +0000

As I was reading The God Delusion, I was perplexed as to what criteria Dawkins was using to determine which worldviews count as “child abuse” or indoctrination and which do not. What would prevent someone from arguing that teaching kids that there is nothing humanly relevant that cannot be discovered via the methods of science is indoctrination?

I’m a parent of young children as well, and I am well aware that I will likely be teaching my kids some things now that I will one day come to second guess. Having said that, I am convinced that it is possible to raise children within a religious tradition and at the same time communicate the importance of critical thinking. The two categories (“thinking for oneself” and “being committed to a religious tradition”) are not mutually exclusive, despite what Dawkins seems to think.

By:

Mark Tokarski — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:34:11 +0000

Ha! Finally got back to you on this. Sorry to be away at a time when things were heating up. We were down in Yellowstone National Park at the perfect time of year to be there, so there. Has to be that way.

Regarding indoctrination of children, you say you will share truth with your children as you see it, and doubt where you experience it. It is the notion of ‘truth’ that troubles me, as the definition of truth, as I see you use it, is “things I believe to be true.”

I had many truths shared with me when I was a child – they were implanted in my head before I had enough of a brain to think critically. What you are saying is exactly what my elders did to me as a child.

Let’s face it – you want to implant your truth before someone else implants theirs. Raise a child in the woods, free of outside influence, and will that child learn of Jesus or transubstantiation? Of course not. These are the truths in operation in the religious world. They are the ones being implanted in children as we speak.

So I say that your answer is no answer – you say that you won’t lie to your children, only tell them truth. But you do not leave it to them to judge the worthiness of that truth.

Round and round she goes ….