Francis Collins on Faith and Reason

Michael,
In “The God Delusion” Dawkins quotes from Martin Luther:

“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but — more frequently than not — struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”

as well as a couple of similar quotes (p. 190). The reference Dawkins gives for these quotes is a website which does not itself provide references, so I am unable to check the context of these quotes. Knowing the “reason” that Luther used in his thinking, I am guessing that the context here would impact the meaning somewhat.

I would agree with Collins in that faith is not necessarily unreasonable or illogical. However, often peoples’ faith is unreasonable (which is sometimes why you find the above Luther quotes being used). And, trusting solely in reason (to which Luther may have been referring) as Collins implies, is a dead end.

I find it absolutely ironic that a quote that came from Luther’s mouth can be made to sound like it came from Dawkin’s (actually thought it was Dawkins as I skipped over it). Just goes to show, as much as Dawkins thinks his thinking is 21st Century – it sounds a little 16th century – Lol. That’s the greatness of this faith though – we do not think like Luther now – we have moved forward concerning faith and reason and how they interact – whereas Luther was stuck in an era (or maybe it was just him) where openness and dialogue were barely options – being after a Reformation and all (which we are years removed from – yet are slightly experiencing this kind of change again).

Here are some further quotes:

“Reason is the Devil’s greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil’s appointed
whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom … Throw dung in her face to
make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism… She
would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
the house, to the closets.”
— Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148

“Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees
must be put out of sight and … know nothing but the word of God.”
— Martin Luther

I’m still not completely enlightened to their meaning. I’m sure in context there is some logic to them. Let’s dig into it a bit more.

There is some good background info here:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vol-list/message/1818

“Reason is the Devil’s greatest whore” (Luther)

I just a visual thought – imagine Luther saying this in a Sunday service now – that would be a laugh…I think the word ‘whore’ would make everyone’s ears jump off their head.

It’s too bad Luther was ignorant in his days – he did not even understand that he also reasoned his way into his belief system and theology – so obviously reason isn’t 1/2 as bad as he even thought (had he thought about it a bit more).

Yes, but faith is most truly the renewal of reason (Romans 12:2 ‘be transformed by the renewing of your mind’); it’s restoration not its abolition.
You may be aware of C.S. Lewis’s definition which runs something like this: ‘Faith is the art of holding on to what one’s reason ha once accepted, despite changing moods’. The enemy of faith is not reason but, more often than not, our (unreasonable) moods.
Thanks.

Michael, thanks for the above link re Luther’s thinking. Reason, if it is defined as the faith in man’s innate ability to figure things out, is certainly flawed and indeed may be the greatest enemy of faith. However, reason with the assistance of the Holy Spirit is indeed a gift and functions in cooperation with faith, as Collins said. Luther would more than likely use Dawkins’ reasoning to prove his point. If Jesus was correct (which I believe He was) in saying, “no man comes … unless the Father draws him” then man’s reason alone cannot possibly lead to faith. Thinking too much, it seems (without any accompanying revelation), can just make you stupid.

The Time article is skewed from the beginning by the presupposition that faith stands in the way of scientific progress which is reinforced by the following quote:
“TIME: Dr. Collins, I know you favor the opening of new stem-cell lines for experimentation. But doesn’t the fact that faith has caused some people to rule this out risk creating a perception that religion is preventing science from saving lives?”
This is a ‘straw man’ if ever there was one. People of faith aren’t against stem cell research. The issue is embryonic stem cell research (which is where the greatest advances have been made).
So why does Time blow smoke so early on in the article? My REASONING tells me it’s to fix in the mind of its readers that people of faith stand in the way of life saving research. How’s that for ‘reason?’
I think that blurring over important distinctions like that create a false perception that relegates people of faith to the flat earth society and I also believe that the Time, CNN etc. intentionally use these tactics to subtly perpetuate that view (which permeates secular opinion).

very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
Idetrorce