I tend to give more latitude or to suspend judgement when someone says something vague or even weird, even on the gospel, IF IF, they are on record elsewhere being very clear about the gospel, the holiness of God, sinfulness of man, sinlessness of christ, the cross, resurrection, repentance, faith….

Here I plead ignorance of Maclaren. Could be he talks about justification by faith or substitutionary atonement quite often and this is a unique instance where he is doing something ‘creative’, or exercising discernment to plant a seed.

Someone who knows him more than I can answer the question. I’d love for someone to share a quote of a time when Maclaren is very clear on the gospel. It would be very encouraging.

What the exchange reminds me of, was the story Jesus told in Luke’s Gospel, 10th Chapter: “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind;’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”…”Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one (Good Samaritan, who was technically on the “outside”) who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Also, maybe, what Brian said about Fatmire, sitting next to her, will plant a seed in her heart that will one day lead to Christ.

Good discussion. All the comments were good and I slowed down when I got to Dan and Nick. Good thoughts.

- Peace

- Peace

Let’s start a new thread for this one here:
http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2008/09/24/what-is-an-emergent/

Thanks for reading and thanks for all the comments. I will try to respond to many of your comments next week when I return from a trip to Minneapolis.

Nathan C,

I believe we have a common friend in Jeremy Best. He’s our youth pastor and I’m one of his leaders. We should meet sometime. BTW – Scot McKnight is going to link to this post on Saturday so that might bring a better balance of comments to this post.

I didn’t intend for this to be an invitation to jump on McLaren. I feel as conflicted as Carson, which is why I added a link to another post at the bottom of this post.

http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2007/12/28/wiilow-creek-brain-mclaren/

Stay tuned….

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

In order that THE WORLD might be saved through him. Wow.

Don’t you think Jesus’ opponents accused him of posing a false dichotomy when he spoke of the “Pharisee and the publican”?

And we still have much to learn from the parable of the two sons: One said, “Yes, Father,” and then lounged around the house. The other said, “No, Father,” but then got up and went to work.

But we must cope with one of the things that McLaren dislikes about 1st century language (I’m surprised to find it on his lips in this excerpt) — KINGDOM language. Christ MEANS “God’s Ruler.” Repentance is DEFECTION language — you don’t start living a more moral life — you renounce allegiance to self and world and pledge allegiance to the Incarnate God, Christ Jesus the Lord.

Indeed, great judgment is in store for those who say, “Lord, Lord,” but do not do the work of the kingdom. The Sermon on the Mount makes that abundantly clear. But the other end is equally dangerous: “Why will you do the things I desire, but not call me Lord?” Kingdom work matters not because WE think it is good, but because it makes the King famous. It is the cup of water IN HIS NAME that is commended; not the cup of water given merely to please ourselves. Those who do “what is right in their own eyes” are never commended in Scripture.

in HIS love,
nick gill

I think all of us need a good dose of humility when it comes to claiming we have truth. (You should see the humble expression on my face as I write that.) Most of us believe the Bible is truth, but it doesn’t contain all truth. Also we can’t simply take the Bible literally. To quote aquinas (alias): “when John the Baptist exclaims that Jesus is the Lamb of God (John 1:29), no one takes the literal reading that Christ is an actual lamb (Ovis aries). When Jesus says he is the true vine (John 15:1) no one takes the literal reading that Jesus is an actual vine (genus Vitis). ” So there is interpretation – which we must do with humility.

We can learn from those who disagree with us – even if they are Christian.

Of all the things Brian McLaren says, why do we spend most of our energy discussing the things we disagree on? THAT IS Brian’s point. He has me asking if my energy is better spent doing as Jesus did than to seek out the things that divide us. (dichotomy alert) Maybe the authentic action of people like Mother Theresa reaches more for Christ than all these debates about the finer points of theology. (Which I love to do too.)

Jesus debated too. Jesus again and again debated with the religious leaders of the day to reveal to them how they focused on the finer points of the law while missing the primary point. As Jews did with the law, we are experts at missing the point. (Which is why we have no honest politicians.)

So to the point. The dichotomy: He does not imply those are the only two options. He uses it to make a point about how badly flawed he thinks Christianity is when it ignores the dying world. Jesus used dichotomies similarly to make a point. Mark 3:4 comes to mind. I can imagine the pharisees talking amongst themselves about how reducing the argument to a dichotomy was unfair. It is better to challenge his point than the expression of his point. (oops, another dichotomy)

Matt Dabbs wrote:

Social activism and outreach to the poor and downtrodden are the natural overflow of someone committed to the kingdom mission…

That is what I thought, but Brain has me asking if it is reality. I have no stats, but it seems I know as many non-Christians actively involved in seeking justice for the downtrodden as I do Christian. I certainly know several hundred dedicated Christians the majority of whom are among the global top 5% in wealth but are not actively seeking justice. Is it possible that accepting Christ and plunging into theology tends not to translate into becoming like Christ in action?

Paul (I don’t think this is Apostle Paul) wrote:

To miss Jesus is to miss everything!

Agreed. I think Brian’s point is that perhaps we HAVE missed Jesus. How much of Jesus’ time was spent ministering to the down-trodden? How much of Jesus’ resources were spent on himself? Is Brian bringing something valuable to light?

Matt, I really appreciate your quote of D.A. Carson. I feel like that too.

Robert Widdowson says Brian makes nonsense out of John 1.12, 3.3, 5-8. Maybe. Maybe we need to take another look at what it means to be believe in Jesus, or to be born again. Maybe sitting on wealth and debating theology while others suffer indicates our true nature – which needs to die before we can be born again. Maybe most Christian’s inactivity in justice is a stronger indicator of belief in Jesus than pointing to a date when you said “Jesus, come into my heart.” (Matt 25:31++) Maybe we spend too much time getting people to accept Christ and not enough time living like Christ and discipling others to do the same. Maybe the two are the same, but we have separated them because it demands too much sacrifice to follow Jesus.

Eric Hunter wrote:

While you’re at it, do a study of false teachers in the New Testament. Brian McLaren is right up there at the top of the list.

I’ve read the New Testament many times and have not found Brian McLaren’s name in there anywhere. (I know that comment misses your point, but I couldn’t resist.)

I believe, yes. When God’s will is done on earth to any degree as it is done in heaven something of the perfection of heaven (even it’s very incomplete) comes through.

But God’s will is more than just a what. It’s also a why and that hinges upon a WHO. Stanley Hauerwas calls justice and peace movements that do not hinge upon the character of God and the salvation of Jesus “liberal activism” and I agree. There is no justice or peace or healing without the acknowledgement of the Author of all three…and everything else good, for that matter.

Does it bother you?
Hell yes. And I say that as a guy who says things like “hell yes” and a guy who speaks at 100 churches and colleges a year on behalf of the poor and takes bloggers to the developing world in an effort to bring release from poverty.

My fear is that justice and equality and service are replacing God Himself. Just as grace and faith in another generation replaced works and obedience.

There is no need for faith at all when activism is the new Jesus. What was astonishingly missing from McClaren’s answer was Jesus. A gospel with no Christ? Yes, I’m disturbed.

But I’m also aware of how poorly I’ve answered questions before. How nervous and scattered we can all get. I don’t know what Mr. McClaren’s God/god is – I can’t presume to. So if I claim that Christ and His grace are essentials that Mr. McClaren ought not leave out, I’d better not leave them out either. I can’t throw stones at this man’s theology without truly knowing it. And this excerpt hardly makes it fully known.

He is right, of course, that we are talking about the Gospel of the Kingdom of God – that’s what Jesus came preaching. This should be the same as the Gospel of Christianity. Doing good deeds is not necessarily the equivalent of the Kingdom “on Earth as it is in Heaven.” It bothers me that McLaren has become so popular; I’m starting to believe that what started out as Emergent Christianity seems to be turning to an emergent heresy. But, it’s not the first time…