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	<title>Comments on: Tradition: Good or Bad?</title>
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	<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/</link>
	<description>it&#039;s a good thing I like to dance</description>
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		<title>By: Alice C. Linsley</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4261</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice C. Linsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4261</guid>
		<description>Christianity apart from Holy Tradition (not traditions) is easily corrupted.  I recommend these essays on Holy Tradition: 

http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-is-holy-tradition.html

http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/01/ideologies-opposed-to-holy-tradition.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christianity apart from Holy Tradition (not traditions) is easily corrupted.  I recommend these essays on Holy Tradition: </p>
<p><a href="http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-is-holy-tradition.html" rel="nofollow">http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-is-holy-tradition.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/01/ideologies-opposed-to-holy-tradition.html" rel="nofollow">http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2009/01/ideologies-opposed-to-holy-tradition.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jason Postma</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4168</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Postma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4168</guid>
		<description>I should add that my orchard metaphor does imply that pruning is important, but, as any arborist will tell you, it takes careful discernment and and the purpose is for pruning those branches that inhibit the growth of the tree and its fruit.  If a tree is growing fruit, far be it from me to cut the branch or uproot the tree just because I don&#039;t care for the flavor, color, or shape of the fruit.  The fruit must be given time to ripen so that we can determine what nutrients and nourishment are available.  Perhaps it may not provide what I need, but others may find sustinence from it.

Grafting is also important - in the terms of this discussion, grafting symbolize the importance of ecumenical diaologue (and even, dare I suggest, intercultural and even interfaith dialogue).  Sectarianism lurks behind the staunchest defenders of orthodoxy - a way beyond sectarianism is to taste the fruits of others and to offer them a bite of our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that my orchard metaphor does imply that pruning is important, but, as any arborist will tell you, it takes careful discernment and and the purpose is for pruning those branches that inhibit the growth of the tree and its fruit.  If a tree is growing fruit, far be it from me to cut the branch or uproot the tree just because I don&#8217;t care for the flavor, color, or shape of the fruit.  The fruit must be given time to ripen so that we can determine what nutrients and nourishment are available.  Perhaps it may not provide what I need, but others may find sustinence from it.</p>
<p>Grafting is also important &#8211; in the terms of this discussion, grafting symbolize the importance of ecumenical diaologue (and even, dare I suggest, intercultural and even interfaith dialogue).  Sectarianism lurks behind the staunchest defenders of orthodoxy &#8211; a way beyond sectarianism is to taste the fruits of others and to offer them a bite of our own.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Postma</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Postma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4166</guid>
		<description>So, to answer the question: &quot;Tradition: Good or Bad?

Bad - when errected as an idol (from &quot;the organ is the only appropriate instrument for church&quot; to &quot;only men are qualified by their nature to be ministers&quot; to &quot;T.U.L.I.P. is the most sublime expression of theological doctrine - to deviate from it is sheer sign of apostasy&quot;).  In other words, when traditional is errected as the ceiling or bookend of theological discussion, it is clearly bad.

Good - when tradition is viewed dynamically, like an unfolding story.  Tradition is the roots (the plural is intentional) from which new fruits are grown.  We are nourished by the roots and the fruits, and we plant new traditions with the seeds of the fruit.  The job of the church and the theologian is to tend the orchard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, to answer the question: &#8220;Tradition: Good or Bad?</p>
<p>Bad &#8211; when errected as an idol (from &#8220;the organ is the only appropriate instrument for church&#8221; to &#8220;only men are qualified by their nature to be ministers&#8221; to &#8220;T.U.L.I.P. is the most sublime expression of theological doctrine &#8211; to deviate from it is sheer sign of apostasy&#8221;).  In other words, when traditional is errected as the ceiling or bookend of theological discussion, it is clearly bad.</p>
<p>Good &#8211; when tradition is viewed dynamically, like an unfolding story.  Tradition is the roots (the plural is intentional) from which new fruits are grown.  We are nourished by the roots and the fruits, and we plant new traditions with the seeds of the fruit.  The job of the church and the theologian is to tend the orchard.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Postma</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4165</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Postma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4165</guid>
		<description>Let me preface my comments by saying that as someone who was trainied as an historian, I have tremendous respect for our the history of the church and its theology.

I suspect that what Carson has in mind in his defense of tradition is orthodoxy.  To be blunt, &quot;The Don&quot; is a bit of a heretic-hunter.  Anything that deviates from historical, biblical (whatever those terms mean) Christianity is heresy.  Talk about a static notion of tradition!

I think a more nuanced view of tradition in the church - in terms of church practices (worship, sacraments, etc) and in terms of theological orthodoxy is required.  Paul Ricoeur gets a this in his conception of tradition as a dialectic of innovation and sedimentation.  Tradition is a living, breathing thing - to hold onto it too tightly is to errect it as an idol (and, as we all know, idols are non-living things - and, as Carson should know, we become what we worship).  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also dangerous because it completely ignores the foundation from which one is working (all humans are &quot;traditioned&quot; - there is no such thing as an un-traditioned person).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me preface my comments by saying that as someone who was trainied as an historian, I have tremendous respect for our the history of the church and its theology.</p>
<p>I suspect that what Carson has in mind in his defense of tradition is orthodoxy.  To be blunt, &#8220;The Don&#8221; is a bit of a heretic-hunter.  Anything that deviates from historical, biblical (whatever those terms mean) Christianity is heresy.  Talk about a static notion of tradition!</p>
<p>I think a more nuanced view of tradition in the church &#8211; in terms of church practices (worship, sacraments, etc) and in terms of theological orthodoxy is required.  Paul Ricoeur gets a this in his conception of tradition as a dialectic of innovation and sedimentation.  Tradition is a living, breathing thing &#8211; to hold onto it too tightly is to errect it as an idol (and, as we all know, idols are non-living things &#8211; and, as Carson should know, we become what we worship).  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also dangerous because it completely ignores the foundation from which one is working (all humans are &#8220;traditioned&#8221; &#8211; there is no such thing as an un-traditioned person).</p>
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		<title>By: Lark</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4149</link>
		<dc:creator>Lark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4149</guid>
		<description>I think tradition is a comfort, but like anything practiced without examination, might lead to worshipping other gods. Focus on the Word is the best defense against falling prey to mindless (or soulless) repetition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think tradition is a comfort, but like anything practiced without examination, might lead to worshipping other gods. Focus on the Word is the best defense against falling prey to mindless (or soulless) repetition.</p>
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		<title>By: Alden</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4147</link>
		<dc:creator>Alden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4147</guid>
		<description>Thanks Michael.  I try never to link to my own site without being asked.  I&#039;ve actually written several posts on the issue, but will give links to 2: &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/3RdhMe&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://aldenswan.com/2010/01/exploring-the-twain-6-tradition-revisited/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

These are merely &quot;thinking out loud&quot; pieces as I try to think logically through the issues, and also am exploring the differences between Eastern and Western Christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Michael.  I try never to link to my own site without being asked.  I&#8217;ve actually written several posts on the issue, but will give links to 2: <a href="http://bit.ly/3RdhMe" rel="nofollow">Here</a> and <a href="http://aldenswan.com/2010/01/exploring-the-twain-6-tradition-revisited/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>These are merely &#8220;thinking out loud&#8221; pieces as I try to think logically through the issues, and also am exploring the differences between Eastern and Western Christianity.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krahn</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4146</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4146</guid>
		<description>@Alden: Please do post the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alden: Please do post the link.</p>
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		<title>By: Alden</title>
		<link>http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/09/tradition-good-or-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-4145</link>
		<dc:creator>Alden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/?p=1304#comment-4145</guid>
		<description>Carson fails to point out that the Canon of Scripture that we have is itself a product of &quot;tradition.&quot;  There is no &quot;inerrant&quot; list of inspired writings; we owe the selection of the Canon to the early church fathers (who also established much tradition that is discounted today in the West).  So, it is somewhat nonsensical to set Scripture apart from tradition.

Also, Luther stood against the &quot;traditions of men,&quot; not what he considered Apostolic (what the Orthodox view as Tradition).  Any real look at tradition should also consider the Eastern view, not just the RCC.

The real question, it seems, is not &quot;do we accept tradition?&quot; but &quot;which tradition do we accept?&quot;

I did a more extensive look at tradition on my blog a month or so ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carson fails to point out that the Canon of Scripture that we have is itself a product of &#8220;tradition.&#8221;  There is no &#8220;inerrant&#8221; list of inspired writings; we owe the selection of the Canon to the early church fathers (who also established much tradition that is discounted today in the West).  So, it is somewhat nonsensical to set Scripture apart from tradition.</p>
<p>Also, Luther stood against the &#8220;traditions of men,&#8221; not what he considered Apostolic (what the Orthodox view as Tradition).  Any real look at tradition should also consider the Eastern view, not just the RCC.</p>
<p>The real question, it seems, is not &#8220;do we accept tradition?&#8221; but &#8220;which tradition do we accept?&#8221;</p>
<p>I did a more extensive look at tradition on my blog a month or so ago.</p>
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