(part 3 of a miniseries on the emerging church – see part 1 and part 2)

Unfortunately, both sides (Emerging and mainstream) suffer from rejecting the other. Some of the old guard resists new life, ensuring the continuation of their own slow death. The emerging generation discounts the contribution of the previous generation – largely on the basis how little life change it sees – and thereby denies itself access to a great repository of solid theology and a heritage of belief.

One side needs to talk more about global issues while the other side needs to guard their theology a bit more.

I had the wonderful opportunity about a year ago to be at Brian McLaren’s “Why Everything Must Change” conference one weekend and being in Minneapolis at John Piper’s “Desiring God” conference the next. There was something at both that wasn’t at the other; there was something missing at both that the other addressed.

At WEMC, belief in the gospel was either buried under a torrent of concern for global humanitarian issues, or redefined as being the concern for those issues. These are not inappropriate or unimportant concerns.

At Desiring God ‘08 there was no mention of a current global issue at all. It was all gospel, all theology, all talk. I left there with my theological beliefs strengthened, which is a good thing. But where is the concern for global suffering and injustice? Connect the dots for us: how does this theological clarity lead us into a biblical concern for the poor and the action that must follow?

In my opinion, the best thing an organization like DG can do to stem the flow of young people going to the theologically unsteady regions of the EC is to talk more about practical application of the great truths they teach. In Piper’s own words, he does not “aim to be immediately practical but eternally helpful.” I think he should reconsider this and try for both.

A full gospel is both theological and social; it is belief and action.

Related posts:

1. D. A. Carson: Five Trends in the Church Today  D. A. Carson in a talk before last week’s Desiring God national conference: 4. There is a trend in our churches to be consumed by...
2. Ed Stetzer on The Emerging Church Stetzer has just published a lengthy article in The Journal for Baptist Theology and Ministry.(go to page 62 to read the article) Among the more...
3. Andrew Jones responds: “John Piper and an ‘upper-middle-class’ emerging church” Andrew Jones (Twitter), a recognized long-time leader in Emerging Church circles responds to my post from earlier this week. Here is an excerpt: The EC...
4. Liveblogging the EMMC NatCon – 3 A good day today. Dan Rempel and I delivered a talked entitled “clear.communication: Staying Relevant in a Changing World”.  The session went well, it was...
5. Church Size: Why Always “Bigger”? Is bigger always better? Two questions: 1. Can you list one biblical and one practical reason why we keep trying to make our current churches...

The winds of reconciliation are blowing through the stratum of Christendom of late.

First, Steve “Shake Me to Wake Me” Camp made a heartfelt apology to long-time nemesis and current All-American Calvinist poster boy Mark Driscoll.

Then, in an equally heartfelt – though expletive peppered – post,  Chief Executive Senior Pastor of New Spring Church, Perry Noble, admits that he actually likes John Piper.

Now, it’s being reported that John MacArthur and Brian McLaren will co-author a book together to be released on the new Tony Jones/Emergent Village approved Baker imprint Fundamergent.

“With the winds of reconciliation blowing so hard,” MacArthur said when reached at his home this afternoon, “I felt led to approach Brian in a spirit of correction significantly less stringent than I had previously experienced. There was a moment there, as we were posing for our picture together, that I almost caught myself saying – out loud – that he might be a Christian, but cooler heads prevailed.”

In response, McLaren was equally effusive in his praise of MacArthur. “John is not such a bad guy,” McLaren said, “He and his kind really do have something to add to the conversation, even if it is just to tell the rest of us how wrong we are.”

The book, currently being written with a working title of “The War on Velvet Heterodoxy”, will feature alternating chapters written by McLaren and MacArthur, with McLaren writing first and then MacArthur picking apart verb tenses and voice intonations, and keeping and eye on McLaren’s particular word order.

The book is slated for release April 1, 2010.

***SEE ALSO: Tony Jones Finds Audience, Loses “Religion”

Related posts:

1. Brian McLaren – Dave Ramsey Scandal Revealed!  When I was at Baker Books in Grand Rapids on the weekend I saw this interesting juxtaposition of book covers (click on image for larger...
2. OBITUARY: Emerging Church (1989-2009) This brings a (satirical) tear to my eye. The money quote: She is survived by her parents, the Seeker Church, and Sojourners; her paternal grandmother,...
3. John Piper on “Emerging”, “Emergent”, and “Missional” John Piper has a handle on what these terms mean, and shows it in this post. I’m not in total agreement with his analysis but...
4. McKnight: “McLaren Emerging” Scot McKnight provides more of his trademark clarity in a recent article in Christianity Today: I maintain a crucial distinction between two related streams: emergent...
5. Willow Creek + Brain McLaren = (???) Willow Creek is inviting Brian McLaren to speak at their upcoming Shift conference. This post will be very odd because I love what I hear...

Emboldened by the added attention of a liberal-leaning audience since he moved his blog to Beliefnet, Tony Jones today announced a plan to review the Apostles’ Creed and put forward a controversial position on each one.

Since blog posts questioning gender roles and the doctrine of original sin have been so popular, Jones has decided it’s time to “question everything.”

“I mean, some of that stuff in the Apostles’ Creed looks a little outdated to 21st century eyes. What I’ll write in these posts may or may not represent my actual opinions, but depending on the comments for each post, you may or may not find out,” he clarified in a press release and email sent out last night.

“The change in the demographic of my audience has allowed me to explore just how deep the rabbit hole goes,” Jones said this morning when interviewed on the front steps of Solomon’s Porch, the “church” whose “pastor” is Doug Pagitt, a co-Emergent and close friend of Jones.  Pagitt’s take on Jones’ plan was predictably affirmative: “Listen, all Tony and I are trying to do is show people what A Christianity Worth Believing looks like.”

“In addition,” says Jones, “since shedding my role as National Coordinator I’ve felt less obligated to appear ‘orthodox’ on at least a few of the big issues in order to maintain loose ties to less progressive evangelicals like Scot McKnight and Dan Kimball.  With my new, larger audience at Beliefnet, that kind of catering is no longer necessary.  And besides, Kimball has the most un-Emergent hairstyle I’ve ever seen.”

Jones, a pioneer and central figure in what is known as the “Emerging Church” movement, stepped down as National Coordinator of Emergent Village late last year amid fears that one person coordinating a national organization might lead to too much organization – a predicament those in the Emerging Church movement are keen on avoiding.

“You can expect more huge announcements from me in the next few months,” Jones continued, “with my newfound freedom and a growing Beliefnet audience, who knows where this could go! I consider my blog posts Dispatches from the Emergent Frontier and I plan on making a lot of New Christians as a result,” Jones added with a wink and a nod to his latest book.

“Mark Driscoll can have the New York Times and Nightline – I’ll take Beliefnet over those shows any day!” Jones added with some swagger, making reference to former Emerging Church kingpin Mark Driscoll, who has made two high-profile appearances in the national media in the last month.

(FYI – this is a satirical examination of events, some of which are fictional…)

Related posts:

1. What is the “Emerging Church”? In my experience, having observed, engaged in, and written about it, the following are some important and often misunderstood facts about the movement: The Emerging...
2. OBITUARY: Emerging Church (1989-2009) This brings a (satirical) tear to my eye. The money quote: She is survived by her parents, the Seeker Church, and Sojourners; her paternal grandmother,...
3. McKnight: “McLaren Emerging” Scot McKnight provides more of his trademark clarity in a recent article in Christianity Today: I maintain a crucial distinction between two related streams: emergent...
4. John Piper: the Emerging Church was “an upper-middle-class, white, departure from orthodoxy…” ***UPDATE – Andrew Jones responds to this post*** Piper’s new definition of the Emerging Church: an “upper-middle-class, white, departure from orthodoxy…” Some highlights from the...
5. John Piper on “Emerging”, “Emergent”, and “Missional” John Piper has a handle on what these terms mean, and shows it in this post. I’m not in total agreement with his analysis but...

Ok, I’m done now… I told Anne Marie not to let me go out again.

Here’s the academic stack:

…and the other stack. You’ll notice I out the Bell and Pagitt books between some more solid theological works.  I tried to put them closer to MacArthur but there were sparks.

By the way, we’re going Rob Bell’s church (Mars Hill) tomorrow morning. I’ll put up a post about that sometime next week.

Related posts:

1. Books in Grand Rapids (Day 1) This town is a gold mine. I bought the stack below at a mall -  A MALL! And I only went through half of what...
2. Question and Answer with Mark Driscoll via Resurgence featured audio On Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at the Resurgence National Conference, Pastor Mark Driscoll spent sometime answering questions from audience. Please listen...
3. The Big Announcement It’s Sunday morning – a fitting day of the week to announce that I am now officially the “Associate Pastor of Worship and Missions” at...
4. John Piper on “Emerging”, “Emergent”, and “Missional” John Piper has a handle on what these terms mean, and shows it in this post. I’m not in total agreement with his analysis but...
5. Krahn the Camp Counselor I probably won’t post much of substance this week as I am spending my mornings shepherding seven grade 5-6 boys around Day Camp every morning....

This town is a gold mine. I bought the stack below at a mall -  A MALL! And I only went through half of what they had so I’ll be going back today. I didn’t pay more than $4.99 for any of these.

 Top book is by Ratzinger (BXVI).  I’ve skimmed it and his writing is fantastic.

There are three in the stack by Erwin McManus… I picked up another of his last week in London so I’m pretty close to have all of his.

“The Sacred Way” is by TonyJones. We’ll see about that one.

“Favorite Psalms” is by John Stott

Bottom book (“The Sprit of Revival”) is by R.C. Sproul and is subtitled “Discover the Wisdom of Jonathan Edwards”

Stay tuned… I’m going to Baker Books today.

Related posts:

1. Books in Grand Rapids (Day 2) Ok, I’m done now… I told Anne Marie not to let me go out again. Here’s the academic stack: …and the other stack. You’ll notice...
2. Brian McLaren – Dave Ramsey Scandal Revealed!  When I was at Baker Books in Grand Rapids on the weekend I saw this interesting juxtaposition of book covers (click on image for larger...
3. Book Shopping – Day 1 These came from a book sale in a mall Rob Bell – Velvet Elvis Dan Kimball – Emerging Worship Dan Kimball – The Emerging Church...
4. 5 Things About My Dad (4) – Having 1000+ Books is Normal. Right?!?! I’ve written about my dad before and someday, when it’s time to write my memoirs, there will be a lot more. Here’s the 4th of...
5. Blog Title Change I changed the title from “A Mind Awake” (after a book about C.S. Lewis) to “The Ascent to Truth” (after a book by Thomas Merton). ...

Scot McKnight provides more of his trademark clarity in a recent article in Christianity Today:

I maintain a crucial distinction between two related streams: emergent and the broader emerging movement. Emergent is crystallized in Emergent Village and its leaders Brian McLaren, Tony Jones, and Doug Pagitt. Emerging is a mix of orthodox, missional, evangelical, church-centered, and social justice leaders and lay folk. When I think of this broader emerging movement, I think of Dan Kimball at Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, Dave Dunbar at Biblical Seminary in Hatfield, Pennsylvania, Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch and their book The Shaping of Things to Come, and Donald Miller’s Blue Like Jazz. Some of this was anticipated by Lesslie Newbigin’s many writings and is now sketched in Tom Sine’s The New Conspirators. Furthermore, I see emerging trends in megachurches like Willow Creek Community Church and Saddleback Church.

Despite what some critics assume, Brian McLaren, the most controversial of emergent leaders, does not represent all things emerging. But he does represent the more progressive wing, and his latest books offer a glimpse of where that movement might be heading.

(read entire article)

Related posts:

1. What is the “Emerging Church”? In my experience, having observed, engaged in, and written about it, the following are some important and often misunderstood facts about the movement: The Emerging...
2. Willow Creek + Brain McLaren = (???) Willow Creek is inviting Brian McLaren to speak at their upcoming Shift conference. This post will be very odd because I love what I hear...
3. John Piper on “Emerging”, “Emergent”, and “Missional” John Piper has a handle on what these terms mean, and shows it in this post. I’m not in total agreement with his analysis but...
4. OBITUARY: Emerging Church (1989-2009) This brings a (satirical) tear to my eye. The money quote: She is survived by her parents, the Seeker Church, and Sojourners; her paternal grandmother,...
5. Emerging Church Ceases to be “Radical and Controversial” Andrew Jones, a long-time leader and historian of the Emerging Church Movement gives it the R.I.P. treatment in his recent post “Emerging Church Movement –...

***RELATED POST: Have your say: What is an “Emergent”?

I spent Friday night and all day Saturday in Oakville, Ontario at the “Why Everything Must Change” conference.  I’ll post more audio and observations in the coming days but the following was the immediate hot-spot for me.  I should mention that there were many great things about the conference and I’ll be sharing those too. 

The question for the panel at the end of the conference was “What is the Good News?”

Brian McLaren was the only one to answer (link to audio below):

“I think this is where it gets interesting because one of the ways that what we do becomes colonization, when we’re going to represent a religion and trying to make converts to a religion… but the good news isn’t the good news of Christianity, it’s the good news of the Kingdom of God.  And I think that Fatmire [Muslim peace activist also present at conference and sitting next to him on the panel] working for peace, is an agent for peace, and I’d much rather her be working for peace being who she is than… becoming a person in a church worrying about the list over there on that wall.  [on "the list" are things non-essentials like speaking in tongues, etc.)

So, to me there’s something we really have to grapple with about whether the border of a religion is the border of the kingdom of God.  And I think that’s a question we’d be wise to raise.  I liked what you said about there not being despair when you’re among the extremely needy people.   Wouldn’t it be interesting if we found out that God is present wherever there’s suffering because God is there bringing healing and God is really present wherever people are working against injustice because that’s the work of God, wherever people are working for peace. And then the we find that the place that God isn’t is where you have a bunch of affluent people who are self-absorbed… and that wouldn’t surprise me why they would get depressed, because, in some way, it’s not that God isn’t present but they’re snoring through the presence of God.”

So basically, is he saying that a Muslim peace activist is doing the work of the kingdom of God?  And would he really prefer that she not first find true peace in Christ? (Mark 1:15 ”The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”)  

“I’d much rather her be working for peace being who she is than… becoming a person in a church worrying about the list…”  As if there are only two choices: remain a Muslim and continue to pursue a peace apart from Christ or waste your time becoming a Christian and bickering about non-essential things that make no difference to the world.

It’s quite a dichotomy to lay out, but it’s an incomplete scenario and it seems that Brian believes that Fatmire would be no further ahead with Christ as the source of her peacemaking efforts.  That bothers me.  Does it bother you?

(You can listen to the audio here)

***UPDATE: here’s a link to an earlier post about McLaren  

Related posts:

1. John MacArthur and Brian McLaren to Co-Author New Book The winds of reconciliation are blowing through the stratum of Christendom of late. First, Steve “Shake Me to Wake Me” Camp made a heartfelt apology...
2. Brian McLaren – Dave Ramsey Scandal Revealed!  When I was at Baker Books in Grand Rapids on the weekend I saw this interesting juxtaposition of book covers (click on image for larger...
3. Willow Creek + Brain McLaren = (???) Willow Creek is inviting Brian McLaren to speak at their upcoming Shift conference. This post will be very odd because I love what I hear...
4. The Evolving Church: Kingdom Economy I’m looking forward to attending and live blogging the 2010 Epiphaneia Conference in Toronto on April 10th. Like every other conference I attend, I expect...
5. Are Isa and Jesus the Same Person? The Rick Warren-Inaugural Prayer Redux When I wrote about Rick Warren including Isa as an equivalent name for Jesus in a previous post, a decent discussion erupted. What a learned...

Willow Creek is inviting Brian McLaren to speak at their upcoming Shift conference. This post will be very odd because I love what I hear from D.A. Carson and I dislike most of what I hear from Brian McLaren very much.

It is indeed sad to see Willow inviting McLaren to influence their flock. I do believe this is a mistake. Part of me fears that they are afraid of losing market share and are just trying to get on board with the hot new trend.

The question has been asked (at a blog called The Gospel Driven Blog) “How can a man who denigrates substitutionary atonement have anything helpful to say to the church?” Quite easily – he understands other aspects of the church quite well. He will no doubt say many helpful things at this conference, but I would still not invite him to speak to my leaders. Ditto Rob Bell – many of the Nooma videos are completely appropriate and helpful growth tools, but I wouldn’t endorse them to my leaders because the trajectory of interest would lead them to other of his materials that are, shall we say, considerably less orthodox.

Regarding D.A. Carson – his book on the Emerging Church has been rightly criticized (by Scot McKnight for one) as being far too narrow in focus for its title. This, I believe, is fundamentally a marketing issue. The book is not so much about the Emerging Church as it is about Brian McLaren. The problem is that the Emerging Church is about far more than McLaren. McLaren is a major player, but only on one side of the movement.

Rather than reading Carson’s book, I would direct you to two articles written by Scot McKnight. McKnight has the rare position of being accepted by the Emerging left while maintaining an appropriate critique of it.

In the article “Fad or Future”, McKnight describes his own discovery and early experience with the movement and in “Five Streams of the Emerging Church” he offers a follow-up and a couple of strongly worded cautions to Emerging leaders including the following:

“So I offer here a warning to the emerging movement: Any movement that is not evangelistic is failing the Lord. We may be humble about what we believe, and we may be careful to make the gospel and its commitments clear, but we must always keep the proper goal in mind: summoning everyone to follow Jesus Christ and to discover the redemptive work of God in Christ through the Spirit of God.”

Related posts:

1. McKnight: “McLaren Emerging” Scot McKnight provides more of his trademark clarity in a recent article in Christianity Today: I maintain a crucial distinction between two related streams: emergent...
2. Willow Creek – The Church the Cool Kids Love to Hate First, let’s get the story from the horse’s mouth : Willow Creek’s Reveal study To younger church leaders (usually with small congregations) leaping for joy...
3. OBITUARY: Emerging Church (1989-2009) This brings a (satirical) tear to my eye. The money quote: She is survived by her parents, the Seeker Church, and Sojourners; her paternal grandmother,...
4. What is the “Emerging Church”? In my experience, having observed, engaged in, and written about it, the following are some important and often misunderstood facts about the movement: The Emerging...
5. Brian McLaren – Dave Ramsey Scandal Revealed!  When I was at Baker Books in Grand Rapids on the weekend I saw this interesting juxtaposition of book covers (click on image for larger...

Here’s the other half of the quote (read the first half here):

“The Irony of this is that in Revelation 19 where
Jesus comes on a white horse there’s a small detail that
people tend to miss, and that is that the way that Jesus
slays the nations is by a sword that comes out of his mouth.
That small detail deserves some more attention. To have a
view of Jesus coming on a donkey with a message of peace
versus Jesus coming on a horse with a message of war are two
very different pictures of Jesus and I’m trying to bring
that out. I really think that deserves some conversation.”

This is Brian McLaren quoted in an interview posted at Emergent Village last week.  I am not an escahtology buff so unpack this for me.  What is the irony in in Jesus slaying the nations with a sword that comes out of his mouth?

Related posts:

1. Who said “Jesus looks like Osama Bin Laden”? Regarding the “conventional” view of eschatology: “What you end up with is a trajectory for telling the story where the afterlife becomes the point of...
2. Brian McLaren – Dave Ramsey Scandal Revealed!  When I was at Baker Books in Grand Rapids on the weekend I saw this interesting juxtaposition of book covers (click on image for larger...
3. Willow Creek + Brain McLaren = (???) Willow Creek is inviting Brian McLaren to speak at their upcoming Shift conference. This post will be very odd because I love what I hear...
4. John MacArthur and Brian McLaren to Co-Author New Book The winds of reconciliation are blowing through the stratum of Christendom of late. First, Steve “Shake Me to Wake Me” Camp made a heartfelt apology...
5. Rick Warren: In the name of “Yeshua, Isa, Jesus” For those of you who don’t know, Rick Warren was asked to pray at Barack Obama’s inauguration. He closed his prayer “I humbly ask this...