it's a good thing I like to dance
Mystery quote time. Who said this?
“Preaching is not the totality of the church. And if all you have is preaching, you don’t have the church. A church is a body of people who minister to each other. One of the purposes of preaching is to equip us for that and inspire us to love each other better.”
Guesses?
I threw a question out on Facebook a couple of days ago. “What is one question you’ve always wanted to ask a pastor?” Below are responses to some of the questions:
Where do I struggle in my faith? Hmmm… I’ve shared with some of you before that faith is an area of strength for me. I feel that I’ve been given an “extra portion” so to speak. This has nothing to to with anything I’ve done to obtain an extra portion, simply that God has given me strength in this area for a purpose. What is that purpose? Primarily so that I can engage and encourage those who struggle deeply with faith.
This is not to say that I have no doubts – I have plenty, but they rest inside the fence of faith.
To your second question: If I’d been born into a different religion, who knows; if I’d made a choice, probably Buddhist.
At the same time, because I do believe in ultimate truth, and that that ultimate truth is Jesus Christ, I believe thst regardless of what religion I could have been, my search for THE truth (Jesus) would have ultimately led me to him.
Next question:
In one word: distraction – “the diversion of attention of an individual or group from the chosen object of attention onto the source of distraction.” TV, internet, email, txt messaging, kids sports, etc, etc, etc… and I’m probably the guiltiest one.
How can you be part of the solution? Be an example of wise time management and technology use.
Next:
Answer: have you ever read Song of Solomon?
Next:
I don’t understand…. I would do what I’m doing now, but I would work for free. Is that what you’re asking?
Next:
I find that throughout the day works well and that answers do not necessarily come in the same order as questions are asked. Also, sometimes the answers are not what you expect them to be and you don’t notice them until days, weeks, or years afterward.
Write out your prayers and regularly take time to reflect. You’ll see God working.
Next:
Who says I don’t get depressed? I do, but nowhere near as often or to the degree that I used to.
Realizing that I am not THE solution (actually, sometimes I’m part of the problem) is crucial. It’s not up to me to fix people. My job is to help them make space for God to do what needs to be done.
Next:
My answer to Matt is always the same: communism. [inside joke alert]
That’s it for now. Thanks for the questions. Let’s do this again sometime.
Feel free to discuss in the comments section or in the comment thread at Facebook.
I find that some of the best and most discussed posts come about by way of questions sent to me by email, Facebook, or Twitter. Obviously, the question of one question represents the questions of many others.
So, ask me any question. Here are some topics I can speak with some authority to:
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Kevin DeYoung offers some thoughts on Memorial Day – an American holiday that commemorates U.S. soldiers who died while in military service.
There are two points here I think throw a decent-sized wrench into pacifist theology, which is an area of struggle for me. So do leave your thoughts below and help me struggle through. DeYoung says:
Being a soldier is not a sub-Christian activity. In Luke 3, John the Baptist warns the people to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. The crowds respond favorably to his message and ask him, “What then shall we do?” John tells the rich man to share his tunics, the tax collectors to collect only what belongs to them, and the soldiers to stop their extortion.
If ever there was a time to tell the soldiers that true repentance meant resigning from the army, surely this was the time. And yet, John does not tell them that they must give up soldier-work to bear fruit, only that they need to be honest soldiers. The Centurion is even held up by Jesus as the best example of faith he’s seen in Israel (Luke 7:9).
Military service, when executed with integrity and in the Spirit of God, is a suitable vocation for the people of God.
And then a bit later…
Military service is one of the most common metaphors in the New Testament to describe the Christian life. We are to fight the good fight, put on the armor of God, and serve as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. When we remember the sacrifice, single-minded dedication, and discipline involved in the life of a soldier, we are calling to mind what we are supposed to be like as Christians in service to Christ.
There is a good amount of discussion at the bottom of DeYoung’s post as well that is worth reading.
What more needs to be said? A lot, actually, but I won’t say it all now. At this point I’m not on the “let’s join the military” bandwagon, but I’m also not a hardcore pacifist. A “pacifist with exceptions” is probably accurate.
What do you make of DeYoung’s two points?
For the last week I’ve been collecting questions here – feel free to add a few more; below is the first answer. This is actually a repost (with some edits) from September 2008, but I’ll re-post it now for two reasons.
One, it tries to answer a question submitted by Nathan Colquhoun:
After reading the story of the rich man and Jesus telling him to give all his possessions to the poor to truly inherit eternal life (top it off with all the other stories about wealthy and poor) how do we as a rich country honestly consider ourselves having eternal life if we have not done this basic, straight-forward command?
The second reason is this: today is Black Friday, a.k.a. the annual day of stuff-lust and material worship, a.k.a. the day on which normally sensible Christians encourage other normally sensible Christians to engage in the sin of materialism.
____________________________________________
Jesus vs. Stuff
STORY
As he traveled, Jesus taught the crowds that gathered around him.
When the story of the Rich Young Ruler is told in Matthew the young man runs up to Jesus just as he is setting out on his journey. He’s waited until the last minute, possibly hoping the crowd has pretty much gone on their way and nobody will see him talking to Jesus. This is his moment; he’s been walking around the edges of the crowd while Jesus spoke. He hears something in Jesus’ message and feels that he’s missing out.
The scriptures say that he was not just rich, but extremely rich. The Jews equated riches with divine favor. So unlike the story of Zacchaeus, the people probably would have thought it proper for Jesus to consort with this type of man. Here was someone whom everyone respected, whom Jesus could probably gain some advantage from.
Alfred Plummer guesses that, “This rich man had no doubt previously consulted the official teachers on the question he put to Jesus, and had evidently not been satisfied with their answers.”
As he kneels before Jesus he asks, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Now commentators are split on whether or not this young man was sincerely seeking an answer or only hoping to get a cheap spiritual product from Jesus.
Gundry says, “He seemed to think he could gain eternal life by a single heroic act.” In other words he was hoping for a quick-fix answer, something that could be accomplished in a moment, or at most a 30-day period of intense effort, like one of those “30 lbs in 30 days” programs you see advertised on telephone poles in high traffic areas.
Perhaps he expected, or even hoped that Jesus would give him a difficult task that his great wealth would enable him to accomplish. This would have been the “win-win” scenario that he was looking for. Finally, he thought, an opportunity to use my wealth for “good”!
JESUS LOVED HIM
One detail that is mentioned in the story in the book of Mark is that before Jesus answered him he felt love for him. So another commentator believed the seeker was sincere, otherwise his false pretense would have aroused disgust in Jesus rather than sympathetic love (for his sincerity).
This implies a searching love… like a pause you leave between when someone asks you a tough question and when you answer with something you’re quite sure they won’t want to hear
Jesus might have thought as he looked at him “I love you, but I know you’re not going to like this answer.”
“ONE THING”
Jesus answers, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” And then the young man replies that he has kept all of these commandments all his life.
No one is good except God alone – why does Jesus say that? Is the young man hiding the fact that he already believes that Jesus is God and hoping that Jesus won’t ask of him exactly what he’s about to ask?
Luke 18:22a “When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack…”
“You only lack one thing…” The young man’s eyes open wide with anticipation, “Wow – I thought it would be a bunch of stuff… but only ONE thing?! I’m sure I can do that! Woo, I heard that you could read minds and stuff and I thought you were going to give me this list of stuff that I had to make right. Whew, only one thing, eh? So, what is it?”
Luke 18:22b Jesus says “Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
What is Jesus telling him to do? This challenge is meant to reveal the thing that the young man’s heart is attached to. “You have everything,” Jesus tells him, “Except one thing… Unfortunately, getting the one thing you lack will cost you everything else you have.”
JD Hastings: “Human nature is like a boat upon the seas, it will stay only where it is fastened.” Where you drop your anchor, that’s where you’ll stay. The young man needed to detach himself from the anchor of excessive wealth. I like the way another author puts it: “When he opens his hand to grab hold of Jesus, his earthly riches will fall out of his clutches and land on the poor.” (Abraham Piper)
Sadly, we read in Luke 18:23 that, “when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.”
WHO IS RICH?
The World Bank estimates in a recent study that “1.4 billion people, or one quarter of the population of the developing world, lived below our international line of $1.25 a day in 2005.” $1.25 – This is the total financial resource for an entire day to buy food, pay for shelter, and live off of.
Still looking at other people as rich? I calculated how much I live on per day, it was more than $1.25. It was closer to 100 times that much.
CAMEL – NEEDLE
Next Jesus turns to those left after the young man went away and says, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
Is he exaggerating a bit or is there a point to this? He does say that with God such things are possible, but I think his point is well made that being rich will hinder your chances of being his disciple.
Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” Remember, the Jews at that time thought that if you were rich it meant that you were already favored by God… so if this guy couldn’t be saved, who could?
REWARDS
At this point Peter (always one to step forward and open his mouth) says, “See, we have left our homes and followed you.29 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
In Matthew and Mark Jesus actually says that the rewards for the sacrifices in this life will be a hundredfold.
CONCLUSION
The rich young man was not willing to invest in the idea that Jesus was proposing like he was in all those other proposals that we presume had made him so rich. He had an investment thinking mentality: “I have to get more out than I put in.” In this case, he chose the riches he could touch and see in this life over the riches Jesus promised him in the next life. The difference was faith.
Jesus says if you make money and stuff your goal in life there is almost no chance that you’ll end up a disciple of his. Nowhere does Jesus say it is a sin to be wealthy, but he does say that if you do become wealthy it becomes very difficult to be one of his followers.
So to answer Nathan’s question – or rather his assertion - I do not believe that selling everything we own and giving it to the poor is a basic, straight-forward command for everyone.
I’m sure there will be some discussion, at which time I’ll have more to say. Have at it.
I find that some of the best and most discussed posts at The Ascent to Truth come about by way of a question sent to me by email, Facebook, or Twitter. Obviously, one question represents the questions of many others.
So, ask me any question. (No doubt I will receive very shortly hordes of inane and entertaining questions via Fb, Twitter, and the comments section below. These are all fine – have fun)
Here are some ideas for topics about which I might actually be able to answer with some authority:
Worship
Atheism
Songwriting
Prose and journal writing
Art
Hockey
The “Emerging Church”
And some people I know a few things about:
Thomas Merton
Mark Driscoll
John Piper
Madeleine l’Engle
Go ahead, drop a comment in the box below…
The “EC” (Emerging Church) is not a denomination. It has no creed or doctrinal statement. It has no charter or by-laws. It has no president or board of directors.
The “EC” is a term used to describe a movement that is already happening – or, in some cases, has already happened. The “EC” is the church that is rising (emerging) from the ashes of inaction. That’s too broad a brush of course, since not all churches can be successfully accused of inaction, but in general terms, the EC is comprised of people – some with doctrinal clarity, some not – who are not content with simply knowing – there must be doing as well.
”Emerging” and “Alternative”
An analogy from the music industry might be helpful. In the early 90’s we had an explosion of what we called “alternative” music. This was music that was either on the fringes or completely different than the hit music of the time – which would classified as the “mainstream”. Alternative music was created and then flourished because of great dissatisfaction with the current state of the music industry. What “the industry” was producing was mostly lifeless, weak, and ineffectual music. Eventually “alternative music” became very popular, and because of this fact it ceased to be “alternative” and became “mainstream”.
In the same way the “Emerging Church” is in large part a reaction to the “mainstream” of (mostly) the North American church. The North American church – like the music industry in the late 80’s – has become too weak, lifeless and ineffectual to capture the hearts and minds of the emerging generation of Christians. But these terms need to be transitory and flexible; once something is mainstream, it can no longer be the alternative to the mainstream; once the new generation has emerged, it can no longer reasonably be called “emerging.”
The mistake we seem to be making is we’re trying to call something “emerging” after it has already emerged, just like we continued to call something “alternative” after it became that which it started out as the alternative to. “Alternative” mistakenly became a genre within the music industry. “Emerging” and “Emergent” are becoming genres of Christianity. This too is a mistake.
Defining a Generation
The emerging generation is comfortable with the book of James: If works do not result from faith, then faith is dead. In James’ words – faith without works is like a body without a spirit.
We see lots of professed belief, but too little faith that results in, and is verified by works.
We see a lot of dead bodies, and we’re running away from them.
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Other writing on the Emerging Church that you might find helpful:
We can define immutability in general terms by saying that it is “the quality of being incapable of mutation.” In theological terms, it is defined as “the doctrine of classical Christian theism that God cannot change; this has been variously interpreted to mean either that God’s nature cannot change but that God can, or that God himself cannot change at all.”
In this post, I will interact with the idea as Wayne Grudem defines it: “God is unchanging in his being, perfections, purposes, and promises, yet God does act and feel emotions, and he acts and feels differently in different situations.”
Support From Scripture
Numerous references to the concept of immutability are found in scripture:
- Psalm 102:25-27 speaks of God outliving the universe he created, comparing it to a garment that will wear out in comparison.
- In Malachi 3:6 God establishes his trustworthiness by telling Israel that they are not consumed because he does not change; his promises remain, regardless of the faithfulness (or faithlessness) of those to whom he made the promise. This provides “a solid foundation for his people’s faith and hope.”
- In James 1:17 God is called the “Father of lights” – indeed, the very source of light – and is not outshined by any other light that it might cast a shadow by him. This is similar to Psalm 102 in that it refers to that which we find glorious as something less significant when compared to God.
- 1 Sam 15:29 is somewhat problematic in saying that God will “not lie or have regret” since in the same chapter it says that God regretted making Saul king (vv. 11 and 35). Notes in the ESV Study Bible explain as follows: “Thus the term as used in 1 Sam. 15:11, 35 describes God’s own feeling of sorrow or regret that Saul had turned out as he did… while in v. 29 God will not regret or change his mind concerning a decision once he has made it.”
- In Hebrews 6:17-18 God demonstrates the unchangeable character of his purpose by guaranteeing it by two unchangeable things: himself and an oath.
- Hebrews 13:8 is distinguished from the other references in that it alone refers to the person of Jesus, saying that he is “the same yesterday and today and forever.”
Although…
In seeming contrast to these examples, the following passages show that while God himself does not change, a divine change of mind is possible:
- Gen 6:6-7 records that God was sorry that he had made man on the earth
- 1 Sam 15:11,35 (see notes above re: 1 Sam 15:29)
- In 2 Sam 24:16 God relents from destroying Jerusalem
- Joel 2:13 again describes God as slow to anger and one who “relents over disaster”
- In Jonah 3:9-10 it says that “When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.”
We can conclude from these contrasting passages that when God describes himself as unchanging, he is referring to his essential character and not a complete set of predetermined actions, decisions, and events.
God himself never changes even though he may change his mind about a matter. In human terms, changing our minds about a matter may change us – for better or worse – since a change of mind often occurs after new evidence is discovered or a new insight realized. This of course is not the case for God since he knows all, and since he knows all there are no new insights for him to realize.
Questions
So if, as Grudem holds, God does not change but his “attitude or expression of intention” will change if the situation changes, this seems to call into question his foreknowledge of a given event. An example of this is found in the story of the prophet Jonah in chapter 3, verse 10: “When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.”
If God decides not to do something that he previously decided he would do, doesn’t he already know he is not actually going to do it from the beginning? How can God both know what will happen in the future and change his mind because of the actions of man?
In addition to this, if God knows or has predetermined what will happen in the future, why pray? John Piper addresses the issue as follows:
It is not the doctrine of God’s sovereignty which thwarts prayer for the conversion of sinners. On the contrary, it is the unbiblical notion of self-determination which would consistently put an end to all prayers for the lost. Prayer is a request that God do something. But the only thing God can do to save a lost sinner is to overcome his resistance to God. If you insist that he retain his self-determination, then you are insisting that he remain without Christ. For “no one can come to Christ unless it is given him from the Father” (John 6:65,44).
In Piper’s view then, when we pray we ask God to interrupt the depraved and rebellious self-determination of a sinner and then to cause him to turn to God. This makes some sense of the matter but still leaves the question of whether or not we have any input in the determination of our fate.
It is via this foothold that “open theism” climbs into the picture. “Open theism”, according to Piper, contends that “God has made himself ‘open’ to a future that is yet to be determined by both his and our choices. The ‘open’ future is largely indeterminate until God and his free creatures collaborate in forming it.” Passages such as Jonah 3:10 could certainly lead one to believe the same.
Summary
In summary, whether we believe that God has predetermined every action, decision, and event, or we believe that God determines the future I collaboration with out choices, his immutability God applies to those things in which we can place our faith: his promises. That God is sovereign and will on occasion change his mind according to his good purposes is not a matter that should decrease the confidence of our faith. That God might change his mind when we pray should be a matter of great comfort rather than a matter of disappointment or disillusionment.
Although we may not be able to reconcile the idea of foreknowledge on one hand, and changing his mind based on a change of circumstances on the other hand, surely both are taught in scripture and as such both must be believed. His immutability is firmly taught in scripture, although not without some problematic passages.
Below is a response to my Dawkins posts from a reader who is an ex-Christian atheist. Jump in here and show us how you deal with the implications of these passages – whether from a Christian or skeptic/atheist perspective.
I labeled the passages in question 1 to 5 so in the comments you can answer some or all of them. The person who asked the question will be monitoring the comments and may jump into the discussion
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Hey Mike,
I was just curious….I’ve read quite a bit of your Richard Dawkins blogs. I agree with some and disagree with most but a good read. I just was curious to get your opinion on these bible quotes. In my opinion, to be Christian means you must believe EVERY word the bible says or else you are a cafeteria christian (picks and chooses which parts he wants to live by).
1. Exodus 35:2
Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.
2. Deut 21:18-21
18 “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, 20 and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
3. Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
4. Mark 7:9-13
And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God) — 12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
5. Isaiah 45:7
I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
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